Group Therapy demonstration: Interactive group

Group Therapy demonstration: Interactive group

Good, okay. So, yeah, what I want I�m going
to invite you to do is talk to each other and the focus I�m going to give you is paying
attention, like, in terms of awareness, to what you feel, what you feel internally and
then in relation to each other, what your response is to each other, you know, positive,
negative, articulate what you experience in relation to each other, and then, perhaps,
you know, some curiosity of each other, something particular that you�re interested in, that
you ask each other about. And as far as possible, you know, I want to encourage this into the
contact boundary, that is, sort of, the present experience of this or the meeting of each
other, less about, There may be some relevance in stories from somewhere else, you know,
from your other experience or something, but I�m going to encourage you to keep bringing
that back into this process. And, so, that�s as much structure as I�m going to give you.
I will come in and, kind of, support you to, so, keep focused on what I�m calling the
contact boundary, the coming into contact with each other. This feels uncomfortable because I�m just
thinking �Okay, so, what, how we start the conversation after that and, you know, Like, what do we say to each other to start
the conversation? Well, I�m encouraging you maybe to start
with your feelings, tune in for each of you and locate those. You don�t have to think
about what you might say, what might be interesting, but just start from the what is, what you
do experience and share something of that with each other. I�m feeling really full, from lunch. I had
a big lunch. I�m feeling more grounded since I ate, you
know, just blood, I feel a little bit more alert and not in
the clouds. More grounded. How do you feel? It�s just not the same as that, I was wondering
if they�re inside out. They probably are. It�s a rush this morning. Yeah, it sucks. Something I do, it�s just kind of the environment.
It�s like, I did enjoy our discussion at lunch, though,
about yoga and your teach, teachings that you took and it was very, I enjoyed it. It�s just easier to flow at lunch, probably.
You can talk about food and one thing leads to another and, It was easier. Yeah. This is a bit more face to face, so, Mhm. , what I�m inviting you to do is to, yeah,
take a plunge in and it�s not so much about other things. Right. It�s more about, let�s say, your experience
with each other. So, for instance, when you look at each other, Mhm. , you know, you look at one person, you look
at another person, you�re going to have different experiences. So, I invite you to,
kind of, look at each other and notice what the experience is that you have. You know,
how does this person impact on me? What do I feel with this person? And then maybe express
something about that to each other. �As I sit here with you, my experience is,� Okay. Well, as I sit here with you, Mhm. , I mean, from before as well, it�s, like,
but looking at your face, somehow it reminds me of my family from my mother�s side, like
my mother�s face and my, her brother�s face. It�s almost like, it feels like, you
feel like you could have been from my side of the family, you know? I might be. Yeah, who knows, They�re from the Peloponnese, my people,
my family, yeah. Ahh, Okay, yeah. My grandmother was from there. See. Okay. Interesting. I thought you, yeah. Yeah, they�re from Kalithea, a little village. I don�t remember the name of the village. Yeah. That seems interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that�s what I was going to say
too, you just feel like, it feels like at home, you know, to have your brother or your
cousins around you, you know. So, that�s very familiar feeling. Yeah. It�s, But it�s also facial characteristics, Mhm. , that remind me, that�s interesting. Mhm. Okay. So, yeah, there�s the feeling of familiarity. Mhm. Well, I mean, I�m just enjoying being in
both of, your all�s presence. Yeah, I saw you�re authentic and unique and honest and
it�s enjoyable to be in your, in your presence. My experience of you, It�s, sort of, this,
like, I mean, I feel like a motherly, kind of, protective energy, almost like I feel
I could be protected by you and, you know, Like, what you were sharing at lunch was,
Like, I was, like, I want to know more, like, teach me in. That, so, that kind of, that�s
what I�m experiencing. Well, that�s beautiful. Thank you. I which I had a beautiful daughter. So, tell her the feelings when you say that. Oh, That�s very, I just feel it�s overwhelming
feeling of love to be a mother and for that energy to be acknowledged. It�s, like, happy, you know, crying happy,
like, you want to just cry because it feels good, not because there�s any sadness in
it, but because it�s happy, you know, It�s a beautiful part of being a human being and
having this experience in this body this time, you know, And my grandson�s name is Teddy.
Theodor. So, it makes you wonder, like, oh what is he going to grow up to be, I wonder
if he�ll be, you know, what he will look like, So, you have a son? A son, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so, there was, there was a couple of
moments there when you really stepped into your feeling and, Yeah. , and, you know, shared that. Mhm. So, I�m, if you�re willing to, I�d invite
you to stay with that a little longer, just see if that�s okay with you, both of you,
just to stay with that feeling and connection with Danielle. Mhm. And, kind of, enjoy it or see if it�s difficult,
breathe, Just let yourself really be present with what you told her. Come into this moment,
see what it�s like to sit here with her, the daughter you might have had and what the
feelings that you have right now are as you�re with her, all the shades that there are in
those feelings. Breathe and just feel the feelings and be with her and see what this
is like. Definitely makes your heart pound. Okay. It makes my heart pound to feel mother-daughter
energy. The mother-son energy is different than mother-daughter energy. In what way? Well, it�s masculine-feminine but it�s
also, like, she�s, your daughter is having experience of being a woman, which is your
experience in this body, so, you�re, you know, it�s like a mirror. And with a son,
you know, it�s still mother-child energy, but you don�t really know what he�s going
through in his body, whereas, you know, you have similar feelings as a woman, you know,
as your daughter might have. And my son is, he�s difficult, he�s a
difficult person. So, it�s, But his wife is really sweet. So, I feel like she�s my
daughter, you know? And, so, yeah, having that beautiful daughter energy, that female,
feminine connectivity, it�s just very powerful I feel. That�s what I�m feeling, yeah. I like that you were talking about yoga, Mhm. , and it�s, you, kind of, embody this, kind
of, parent that I, sort of, wanted, because my parents weren�t, my mom wasn�t really
into, like, yoga and spiritual path so much. So, Yeah. I can, I can relate on, you know, how it could
have been or, you know, what it could have been like. Is there a longing there for that or,? Mhm. Yeah. It�s like a guide, role model. Instead I
feel like I�m teaching them, I guess. Yeah, going, Yeah, saying that, my mother
was very childish too. I always felt, even, I always felt like I was her mother. She was,
you know, everyone loves her, because she�s playful and, and loving and kind and generous,
you know, There was a part of me that was, like, I wish she was more grown up. Yeah, What do you feel like you missed out on not
having a daughter? It�s hard, it�s hard to say, but, because
I didn�t have it, but, Yeah. Well, I just, I feel like women can talk to
each other, there�s a flow of communication that sometimes is just easier between women
with each other. But that can just be mine own stuff, but I see it with my girlfriends,
it�s so much easier. If I get together with a group of women, we�re just talking, talking,
talking, talking and just feelings, whatever is coming out, but if it�s with a group
of men, it�s not necessarily talking about our feelings, Or just day to day, you know,
things that�s, It�s a heavier type of conversation. So, maybe that�s what I missed
out on. One of the things. And, of course, it was beautiful to watch a son grow up and
become a man, but it would have been beautiful to watch, you know, a daughter grow, grow
up and become a woman, And go out in the world, you know. Okay, so, come back into this moment and just
notice for both of you what you feel in this moment. Share that with each other. I felt pain in my heart. That�s funny, I feel a lot of love. It�s
almost like I want to love you like a daughter, you know? Yeah, I feel a lot of love. I also feel love, too, but I just notice that. Mhm. And, yeah. Sure. Sadness or emptiness or,? I think it�s, I can�t distinguish it. Just pain, there. Just breathe with that and stay present with
each other. Look at each other maybe and just really stay in this moment, this vulnerable,
slightly painful point at the moment with each other and stay as present as you can. It�s easy because she�s so beautiful. Tell her directly. �You,� I said you are so beautiful, it�s easy to
stay connected to you. Yeah. It�s funny, because I feel exactly the same
about you and when you were getting out of the car earlier, I was, like, oh, there�s,
like, a beautiful, well put together woman. Like, I�m sure she�s coming to this. Like,
it was just really funny and I just thought you are so gorgeous. So, it�s just, it�s
funny. Do you want to have children? You don�t
know? I don�t know. Hm. I probably will, down the road. I�m sure you�ll make a beautiful mother. Thank you. It�s funny, doing all the inner work over
the last few years and having all the realizations about the parents and it�s just, like, do
I really want to do this? You�ll definitely make a lot of mistakes. Right. Do you have any, you know, have any regrets
about having kids? Do you? No. About working too much, but not about having
children. How is it for you, listening and being on
the edge of this and,? I�m happy to give them space. It�s wonderful
to see the connection. Yeah, Maybe, if you�re willing to, share something
with both of them about, you know, what�s going on for you or where this touches you,
where it takes you, I was feeling a bit out of the scene, like
an observer. I just, It just felt like the connection between them and then they�re
so, just happy to observe. There was nothing much going on other than that. Just see the
exchange of recognition. I was wondering, because you were looking
at me from time to time, if you were thinking, like, are you excluding me or anything like
that, but that was my, my thinking. No, I just, I had more of, like, a son feeling,
like, you know, because, Like, my son is watching me while I�m talking to my daughter, yeah, Right, And I didn�t want him to get jealous because
I wanted a daughter or something. Oh, okay, Mhm, That was going up, like, oh, I hope my son�s
not jealous that I wanted I daughter and I didn�t have one. I which I would have had
a daughter as well, you know, type of thing. So, is there something that evokes in you
or that you connect to about, you know, your experience of being a son or, you know, is
there something in that that�s, sort of,? No, Is there something you want to share? I mean, I have a sister, I have a sister and,
no, it didn�t bring anything up, because I felt, I felt my mother gave equal attention
to both of us. So, I didn�t have anything coming up or, I mean, there was a thought,
like, I was keep checking do I feel excluded just being on the side? But I didn�t, like,
the response was �No, it�s okay,- you know, -just enjoy this.- So, I was keep checking
myself because I felt the circle. So there you just keep checking, but no, I was, I was
okay with it, I was, kind of, liking it. Again, I invite you to really come to the
present with each other and notice what it�s like to sit with each other, what your experience
is, to look at this person, these individuals and, well, how that impacts on you. We have been a few days together and I would�ve
went to the other workshop as well and, ,it was, it has been fun. You�d think I�d be so sick of you by now.
Sometimes, I enjoyed it, yeah. I enjoyed it, it�s,
kind of, easy interaction. I enjoy your presence and, you know, yeah, we had some good laughs. I was wondering if that would have been a
funner, a better experience without me or with, I just, because I almost didn�t come,
you know? Or I was maybe �You�re not going to come, you�re going to go by yourself.� Oh, yeah, Yeah, I was hoping it was better, but, Yeah, I think so, Yeah, definitely. And I think I just said it before you asked
and it was fun, easy to travel with, having fun. Same. And, so, what about right now, if you come
into this moment, what�s your experience right now? Say, you know, you traveled a little
bit, done some things, I adore her, she�s adorable. Tell her that. You�re adorable. You�re adorable. Yeah. I keep having sometimes the image of,
like, little teddy bear, like, I want to hug you, I don�t know you that well. Yeah. I love it. I feel very safe with Theo. I guess,
that�s general, but I just, I do here too, like, I feel, and, I guess, again, protection,
I guess, a little bit. Yeah, like you would have my back. Well, I do have strong protector qualities,
you know? Oh my God, That�s one of my archetypes, you know. That�s right. Yeah, well, I take care of people. Yeah. So, there�s a deep trust without having
known you for that long. Mhm. Very deep trust. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I don�t trust everyone in that aspect,
I�d say. Oh, thanks, I also, my experience is, I�m, I wonder
if there�s somewhere else you�ve got to be or if you�re, like, tired from lunch
or something. I had a poor lunch, you know, sleepy. Sleepy. Yes. I�ll stay awake. Slapping is permitted.
Yeah. Right. Well, it is a bit uncomfortable, it�s, like,
because it�s just there�s no subject to buffer the interaction, it�s just looking
at the person and directly speaking about the experience of being with someone else,
which I don�t have a problem to do when I feel like it, but if it�s artificial,
it makes more difficult. Mhm. You know? Yeah. I mean, I, kind of, enjoy connecting with
people, you know, and often I have to hold myself back because I�m more tactile, I
want to hug people, to be more physical, So, yeah, it�s, My experience, usually,
of connection is, like, with the people I like to connect with, like, I feel a, kind
of, rapport or whatever, it�s, like, I have to hold myself back, because, you know, I
can behave like we�re friends for longer, like, I know you longer than, because that�s
how I feel, but that�s not always, Yeah. You know, That�s person�s experience. Yeah, yeah. So, bring that into the present. And maybe,
if you�re willing to share to what degree you�re holding yourself back right now. Huh, You just want to tickle me, don�t you? Yes. Well, yeah, it�s, like, a lot of my
interaction with people is play, you know? So, tell her directly right now, you know,
what you�re, what you�re holding back, like, right now. Play. I�m holding back play, you know? Right, I always hold back play, in, when I, you know,
I feel comfortable with people and, you know, I just, it�s, like, play form me, like,
physical play is first way to relate with you, with you, with you, is to,You, kind of,
hug well, I know you do. You don�t have to hug me. So, yeah, and that�s why I relate
very well with kids, you know, because then there�s not that buffer. And the kids, the
minute you make the connection, you go to play. You don�t have to talk about it and
what you do what you do. So, if you�re willing to come forward a
little bit more, it�s a little safer here, with some of, yeah, Come out, you mean not coming out , With your, yeah, well, with your, What would
your impulse be with, you know, each of these women? Yeah, What if you were not to hold back? Like, right
now, what�s the impulse in this moment? I don�t know, here and now we�re sitting
on a chair, you know, Alright, , it�s difficult, like, it wouldn�t be
anything different than what it is right now. Right. But if it�s just to meet in space, you know,
after the first �hello� and stuff like that, you know, I need more physical contact,
you know? So, tell them what that might look like, give
them a picture. Huh, The distance of sitting, sitting close,
touching sometimes when you talk or, you know, like, as you move your mouth, you move your
hands and, you know, or you, Yeah. , interact like this. So, how is that for you when he just touched
you? Give him some feedback. It was great and I think I hold back too,
like, I mean, I guess, we�re doing in the present moment, so, But I�m think I�m
similar and I hold back because I�m always afraid, I�m always afraid of what people
would think, you know? But, I mean, with people I�m close with, like, I, I�m very hugy
and touchy too, but I noticed I also do that. I knew it. My deep secret. Yeah, right. So, if you didn�t hold back now, what would
your impulse be? I�d probably, you know, like, just touch
more too, same. Yeah. Do this too? Yeah. I tickle, Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you? How are you with physical,
like,? I would say I�m probably less, you know,
playful, unless I really, I know the people, you know, unless they�re, I�ve already
gotten to know them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I�m not, even though I�m, you know,
I, I have to feel like I�m family with people first, you know, I have to have a familiar
family feeling before I�m playful, touchy, this and that. But I do enjoy that, I love
that, you know, but when I�m with family or with friends that are, that I�m that
close to. But I have to have the feeling, a closer feeling before I can do that. It�s
very hard for me with people that I don�t know to just be playful instantly. Oh, yeah, yeah, Yeah. I don�t want to, I mean, from, You probably could do it, though. Yeah, but I need to feel the rapport, like,
I want, Yeah. I need to feel the connection. So, sometimes, Yeah. , connection for me takes a while, to get
to know the person, of course, Mhm. , you know, to, Yeah. , get used to their presence and… other
times it happens like this, like, I just like someone and I just can play, you know? Right. Or, you know, I just, Yeah, It�s a good way to relate for me. I like that. It gets confusing for me to get to relate
with what you do. It�s, like, what, like, like, how would the adult conversation start? Uh huh, You know, and, like, what�s your name, what
you do, Yeah. It�s, like, Have you always been like that, where it takes
a lit, you know, kind of, guarded or,? And maybe it�s not, but, Probably not. Yeah. Probably, as, when I was younger, probably
not. Probably no. And I�m, maybe also living in big city too, you know? Definitely when
I�m in New Orleans, which is where I�m from, or the south, people are more, you know,
-Hi, darling, how you�re doing? What can I do for you? What else can I do for you?
What else can I do for you?- you know, They�re more friendly and giving and, Where here it�s,
you know, everybody�s, sort of, self-contained. That�s what it feels like to me. Mhm. So, probably when I was younger I was more
just outgoing and, Now I feel more reserved. Right. Yeah. It might be age, too, I don�t know. Yeah. That age with experiences or something. You reminded me of something, I was around
twenty seven and I was thinking to myself around that period like, I must be getting
older, I don�t enjoy going out and dancing so much, you know, the clubs, Yeah. And it�s, Within that period that I�m
thinking about, that, because all my friends are, like �Go, come out.- Yeah. I said �No, I can�t go to that club and,- Yeah. So, I�m coming back from home, Sorry, from
being out somewhere and I want to stop in another club and it�s, like, 1 a.m. and
I�m just, like, you know, the moment when you can�t open your eyes, like, you got
to lethargy, Right. I said �I have to stop to say �Hi� to
some very good friends in there.- So, I go in and I still remember the name of, like,
Anna Tenaglia was playing music and my whole being woke up, Uh huh, I started dancing and, Yeah, Five thirty in the morning, I haven�t stop.
I said �Please, put one song.- and I was warning my friends �Just if one song that
I don�t like comes, I�m going to get out of here really fast.- So, And then, when I
came out of that club, I said �Wow, I�m not getting old, it just the music wasn�t
so good until now.- Maybe that�s it. Yeah. Yeah. So, this just reminded me of that, when you
said that �I�m old.- Yeah. Never too old for a mud slide. Yeah. That�s true. Yeah, I was going to say, because my experience
of you is that I just want to, like, come and, like, squish you and shake you up, you
know and just be, like, ohhh, I want to give you love and, yeah, Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, it�s true, because the past several
years I�ve spent so much time alone, it probably has a lot to do with it, too. Right. Mhm. So, I�ve been, sort of, hibernating. Mhm. Right. Makes sense. Going inward, you know? Yeah. So, Right. But it, yeah, But when you said that, it cracks
me up because if you really knew that there was this, you now, wild dancing Greek inside
of me, Right, Right, I haven�t seen this side yet. So, it�s funny for me, but I understand
it, because even, like, my mother�s family�s English, they�re British so they�re all
very reserved, Proper. Yeah. You know, Whereas my Greek family�s
like �Ohhh!!!- screaming and crying and crashing, banging and, Sounds familiar. Yeah. In a sense, and that also reminds me, One minute you�re mad, you hate, and the
next minute you�re crying and you�re hugging and kissing and, you know, Yeah. They give you so much trouble when you�ve
brought that- Yeah, So, I guess, I have those two people inside
me. Yeah, right. Maybe more. I never had that experience with my family.
It was just, No? , pretty emotionally neutral. No anger, no
this, no, you know, no pa, like, it was just very, So, maybe that�s why I see in you,
you know, we�re always mirrors of each other, and so, Oh, yeah, that�s what, I�m trying to do work to change my own self,
you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it�s a good advice. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. It�s time to get out of the cave,
probably. Right. So, in a way, you�re coming out of the cave
right now, Right. , in some ways? Right. So, how is that? Give us some feedback about
it, what�s it like to be coming out of the cave from your being by yourself period? Well, it feels, kind of, like, you know, the
bear that�s been in hibernation, you know, they�re just messy and, you know, just,
sort of, stepping out very cautiously, sort of, half asleep, half awake, The opposite thing, but the bear is coming
out really groomed. I know, I�m thinking, I�m sure, And he�s kind of getting really messy through
this, Messed him up. That could be happening, too. While inside
that�s how I feel, but maybe outside is different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. That�s interesting. Yeah. So, you know, it feels good, it feels good
and it�s, It feel, It�s also good to be, you know, for me to hear that someone actually
sees me that way, like, they need to, like, shake me or something, you know, I don�t
really feel like I need that, but, you know, maybe that�s what someone�s picking up
on or, you know, that may be the way I�m posturing myself or something without even
realizing it. Right. Yeah. So, maybe, yeah, you can give her a bit more
detail. I wonder what is it that makes you want to shake her up or what is, Do you see
some stiffness or some formality? What is it? Tell her a little bit more about that. Yeah, I think it�s the, probably a little
bit of both, like, stiffness and your movements, carefulness and the form, and, yeah, formality
to a point where maybe I could get in more with you if there wasn�t quite such, maybe,
it�s a, I don�t know if it�s caution or something, you know? And I�m guessing
maybe that�s just because of the whole transition and coming back out now and, Mhm. , maybe there�s just, like, you said, I
think you said careful, you�re being careful as you�re coming out. Right. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. It reminded me of when I was little
and at some point I started to become aware of how I was being and how other people saw
me and I think my mom said one time �Mia, you�re, like, walking into school, but you�re
very careful about the way you�re walking,- you know, Yeah. , and I was, like �Oh, okay.- and then I
started to realize, okay, yeah, before that I was just very, just free flowing second
grader and then I went to a new school the next year and then I became more cautious,
like, just, kind of, you know, More careful. More careful. Yeah. Right. It wasn�t quite so. Which isn�t
always bad, but you just, you know, Yeah. , to make sure you have that, you know, balance.
So, it�s, kind of, the image I got. Because I also see a very beautiful grace
in you and just the way you, because it is beautiful the way you carry yourself and,
you know, I�ve got, I know other people who are just, like, wild, and it�s, like,
okay. So, you know, just, I think that�s also the, Right. What else could there be, A step or something. Yeah, Yeah. Well, that�s valuable to hear that. I don�t really know how to yet, you know,
how to not be as reserved yet, you know? Sure. Have you tried ouzo? Yes, I have. It makes me sick. Just checking, But probably movement, just came to my mind.
You know, because I�ve tried ouzo and wine and vodka, Oh, okay, And then I�d want some. Usually I just go to sleep, it doesn�t help. But probably dance sounds good, just some
type of, like, intense movement, you know, Have you done five rhythms so far? No, what�s that? Oh, it�s amazing. You just go dance however, Oh, okay, Just freestyle dances. Oh, I have done them, we called it �transcendental�
or some �trans� something, Okay. Transdance, Okay. ,we used to call it. Probably something like that. We call it bouzouki where I come from. Yeah, You break plates sometimes, too. Not always, Yeah, I don�t need the bouzouki to, or a
plate, Just duck. I do feel more comfortable with people from,
you know, ethnic, different ethnic groups. I definitely, maybe that�s because of my
upbringing, I was being around big Greek family, so I just, I feel more open because it�s
familiar to me. So, if I�m in, with a room of Greeks, I�m just open, you know? Or French
or Italian or, you know, even Germans. I mean, just, it�s just a different, I don�t know,
So, that has something to do with it too. Yeah. I definitely change the way I am, Yeah. , when I�m with people abroad and when I�m,
I�m going to get in trouble if I don�t. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It�s just different. Yeah, it allows it, you know? Yeah. It�s, like, the culture of people allows
it, you can speak more directly without being dodgy, patronizing, because if they don�t
like what you say, Right. , they�re going to say �No.- they�re
going to say �Are you patronizing me?- Right. As they decide. The Greeks say �No, I don�t
want to.- Yeah. You know, it�s just, there�s no attachment
to that. Right. And also we rarely talk about jobs
or money or, you know, all those things. We�re talking about, you know, world, we just dive
in to world issues or this or that or whatever, we never say �Where do you work? Where do
you live? What kind of car do you drive? Okay, bye.- you know, that�s not how we talk.
So, sometimes I�m, I�m not at a loss to know what to talk about, but sometimes I am.
I�m, like, I don�t really know what, unless I�m in a familiar group of people where
we just don�t talk about those things. It�s not, it�s not of interest to us, you know? So, then, what about here? Because, you know,
here we�ve got a little mix of, Yeah. .. Greek things. So, what, you know, what,
If you bring that description of comfort or whatever, just notice how exactly that is
here and now. Well, definitely, you know, your, your, your,
the exercise of opening up is definitely helping. Yeah. But you�re talking specifically about the
ethnic or the Greek or something, so I�m asking you about now, you know, what, With this group? With this group, these people. Well, yeah. It�s, like, I believe that you
understand and he understands. I think she does, but she said that, when we started,
you know, when she started opening up to me then I, then I�m, like, okay, she understands,
you know? But before that, I�m not quite sure. Does that make any sense? Yeah. I don�t know what to talk about after somebody
says �What�s your job?- Right, What do you talk about after that? So,it�s
just interesting. I think the exercises of all of this, of opening up is, like, bringing
it up for me more and more and more, that�s, that�s a big, that could be a big part of
it for me. Well, this morning in the session we�re
talking about the world and the connection with the world, so I�m wondering, Yeah. , you know, if that�s, like, a place of
connection for you too, given that you�re talking about that, Yeah. Well, that�s an easier place to go for someone,
you know, like Theo, how that is, gauge that right now. What do you mean? Well, because, you know, you raise the theme
about, Oh, mhm. , the world and, Mhm. , sort of, going to that place as compared
to the straight jacket of the city, Right. , you know, and the job and everything. Yeah. So, you know, that was clearly a theme that
he was raising and, so, I�m, kind of, interested in connecting you up with that theme, because
you�ve also named something about, well, it�s more comfortable or something to go
with, Right. , that as a place of connection. As a place of conversation, yeah. Yeah. To,
just understand someone, is what I�m saying, is to get to know someone is to understand
their philosophical thinking, Right, , as opposed to their job. Right. So, then, Yeah. I invite you to do a little piece of that
right now. Okay. Because there�s an opportunity, you know,
you can speak with, Oh, I see what you�re saying, okay. , Theo, and you explicitly name that, as well
as the same background or, you know, So, what�s one piece of that that would be, kind of,
you�d have some energy for and that�s how you really like to connect, you know,
I�m inviting you to do that now. Okay. Yeah, we did a little bit of that at
lunch time, Oh, okay. We were talking about the world and the politics
of the world and, you know, and how to just be a human being at this time and what path
do you chose and how do you stay on that path, I mean, how do you, you know, live your life. Okay, so, maybe, Yeah. , you could say something personal about that. Okay. Maybe you did already, but I�m inviting, Yeah. , particularly you to name, for that, the
topic, that something about you in there, Okay. , in a very personal way, where you can, Okay. , kind of, connect you as the person, in the
bigger picture with these people. Okay. Well, for me, when we were talking about
yoga in particular, and I would say that yoga, you know, not, I didn�t really knowingly
chose to take a path of yoga, but definitely I got on the path of yoga and then that�s
been my, that�s been my road, that�s been my path. So, in another words, it�s not
necessarily the physical postures of yoga, but just the philosophy of yoga. So, that�s
another way to connect with people too for me and to connect with people in the worlds. I love the philosophy, The philosophy of yoga, it always brought
me, if I got off the path too far, I�m, like, okay, I�m too far away, I need to
get back on that path. So, that�s how I, kind of, maybe that helped
me to become a, it did help me to become an adult or to mature on this path of, you know,
using yoga as my vehicle, as my car, basically, or as my road. And, then, always, you know,
I don�t know, I guess discussing the philosophy of the world and what�s going on in the
world and then using it as a reflection back on, like I said earlier, on myself, okay,
so, I can�t fix the whole world, you know, but I can fix myself, I can start with here,
you know? What are a few little things I can do every day to be, And even though I know
that, it�s good to be reminded of it. So, That�s, and maybe that�s how I, you know,
maybe that�s how I have been able to open up to you all too, is just that understanding
of taking the path of yoga or teachings of yoga or Vedanta or whatever it is. Yeah. I think, now that you�re speaking, I�m
trying to think something, A lot of the way I�m used to relate with friends is through
emotion. Mhm. Now I can, we can be talking about work or
talking about the relationship or we can be talking about politics, Uh huh, , but in the way I relate with my Greek friends,
let�s say, it�s a lot about communication the emotion of the situation, either it be
how it is about work, Yeah. It�s not about, you know, how we make it,
but it�s, like, here will be the conversations, like, how we can collaborate, how we could
do this, how we can do that, Right. , which is great, you know, it�s, like,
that�s missing from my country. But what we do here is mostly we talk about feelings, Yeah. Like, we talk a lot about feelings. Okay, so, then, right now, if you were to
bring yourself in and talk about your feelings in relation, for instance to what she was
saying, what, Okay, so it would be the showing emotion around
when I agree with you or not? Like, I�ll change my tone of voice, I�d say �No,-
but, it�s, like, this guy, this guru, that�s, like, what are you talking about, you know, Yeah, , this and this and this. You say �No, but
she was a good teacher,- but it would be, Yeah. There would be intensity in the conversation. Right. Which, I can see that people, like, outside,
not everybody, but a lot of them in England, Yeah. , and here as well, like, people would rather
not talk then, if I get upset about the, if I express, Right. , disagreement with an intense way, you know? Mhm. If I agree with them, it�s fine, but if
I don�t agree or even I, if I raise my voice suddenly because I feel more passionate about
it, even that can be sometimes �Oh, are you angry?- I say �No.- You know, That�s why I went into my cave. Okay, because the way you were, Because the reaction of people every time
you feel, you�re talking in a passionate way, Yeah, shut down. They just, they run. Yeah. Great. So, here�s, Yeah. , and opportunity. Yeah. You�ve got someone who�s into that and
there�s, like, a little space here where you could, like, Yeah, , explore. Tell me about these people. He wants to know, I�m frustrated with them too, you know? But I don�t like to talk and, And yet, I
mean, that I catch myself using general terms, but, you know, Okay, so, Yeah. But maybe you could say something specific
to, like, you�re talking, making it more a broader statement about yoga and, Yeah. , your path and things, Right. So, pick something specific that you feel,
you know, a bit juicy about or strongly about or excited about or opinionated about, you
know, that�s a little bit about the color of you within this thing that matters to you. Well, if you get me started, I can�t stop. Yeah, but we know that�s going to stop,
just asking to stop. Well, the thing is that it�s not just about
the stopping, it�s not just about the stopping, it�s about the experience of some space
here, Right. , to be a little more fully yourself. Don�t mention any names, because this is
on video. No, no, I, I understand that, but, for me,
it�s more organic than that. Oh, yeah, It started at lunch. Yeah, it�s, we started at lunch. The music, that yoga, yogi, But it�s not the conversation, it�s not
just the conversation, it�s, like, the color you put, it�s, like, when you think it becomes
personal, you know? And it�s not personal, it�s your freaking team, you know, but it�s
personal. Yeah. So, you don�t take �No, it�s my team
that�s better than yours.- you know? Anyone that talks like they�re on Fox News
sends me to the moon and back. Okay, Telethon,
If that�s what Fox is about, maybe I should start watching it, So, okay. so, even though it�s not completely
spontaneous, I am inviting you to reach into your basket and call out something, because
there�s some space here to explore and experiment with that and some maybe more receptivity
to talk about one of these things in your basket of excitements about yoga or something
that�s, kind of, that�s got some juice for you, that, you know, would maybe be cool
to have some a bit more romp about with people and, New age gurus, maybe? Well, we got, we did, kind of, get into that
at the table when we were talking about yoga and this, you know, I was saying that I started
yoga when you were weirdo if you did yoga. So, But there were very few, we used to talk
about this at lunch, there were so few teachers. So, now there�s all these aerobics teachers
and dance teachers and everyone�s your, you know, trying to be a spiritual teacher
and they�re, like, twenty five years old and they took, you know, one teacher training
class and, So, what�s your feeling about that? Oh, I get upset about, we, I definitely dug
into that and got upset about it. Not overly upset because I�m still not out of my cave,
but, ??(49:11) Well, Yeah. So, that�s one thing, but, I
mean, just on a daily basis, I mean, every day, these things are just, send me to the
moon and back with what�s going on in the world, whether it�s Syria and now the refugees
coming in, through Greece and the way people talk about them and, you know, and, then I
put it in a historic context and I�m, like, oh my God, this is the story of every single
immigrant everywhere, you know? Everybody�s using them as a scape goat and they burn them,
you know, I was reading about the Greeks in the United States, they burned down whole
cities, you know, and then this is, everyone had to leave, they were killing them, It�s
the same story, whether you were Japanese or you were Chinese or you were, even Irish,
you know? So, yeah, that�s one of the things that just makes me crazy on a daily basis,
when you see all this madness, you know? Just, bombing a country to smithereens and what
do you expect, people just to sit there, you know, and just say �Okay, yeah, sure, whatever.-
you know? No, you expect them to fight you back and
then call them terrorists. Yeah, Or leave, pick up your wife and kids
and leave with the clothes on your back, you know? So, And whatever�s got to be better
than this. So, that, So, see if you can enunciate a little bit
the feeling that you have as you�re talking about this. Like, what is the, what is the
feeling or the mix of feelings? See if you can name them a little more. The feelings, Like, in your body, right now, as you talk
about this, you know, the history and, Well, it�s frustration, frustration, anger,
compassion and, It makes me happy when I see that there are
people that are, like, really standing up and saying �Okay,- there�s people, you
know, knitting hats for them and putting packages together for them and welcoming them and,
kind of, going out of their way to welcome people. So, it�s, Then I just, you know, just, again, go back
and put it into context, what can I do, what can I do today, you know, what can I do in
my own life every day, what is one little thing I can do? Yesterday I was, was sitting somewhere and
I started, there people, I started talking to these people that were beside me, there
were three black men and one of them just told me, you know -Thank you so much for talking
to us.- you know, like, they had been, they were three great big guys, you know, I think
they were gay, but I�m not sure, but they, kind of, looked a little, they looked scary,
actually, but, I don�t know, where I�m from, I�m from a city that�s 70% black,
you know? So, to me that�s normal to see black people everywhere. So, anyway, I don�t
know why I got off on that, but, You were saying you were talking to them, Just seeing in my own life what I can do.
So, whether it�s, you know, I didn�t even realize that that�s what was happening,
but that�s what was happening. I didn�t realize that they had been so, I didn�t
know what their, experience that they had had, they weren�t from here, they were just
visiting. So, I didn�t know that they had had this experience of, like, people, like,
you know, You got to be afraid of them, you know? Repeatedly saw fear in people�s eyes, Okay, so, that�s great, you shared a bunch
of things, Right. So, then, you know, I�m inviting you to
respond, not just to the content, but, like, also, especially the parallel of what are
the feelings that get evoked in you as you listen to her talk. See if you can, kind of,
give that track. I don�t know, when I hear stories like that,
I want to just challenge the world, you know? Yeah, You know, it�s, like, it�s amazing, like,
you know, you�re talking to three guys and they�re nice people and they�re thanking
you for talking to them, you know? Basically. Yeah, that�s, it shouldn�t be happening. I know, I was embarrassed, but, Yeah, Yeah, I go more in the frustration part. Yeah. I go �What?!- Yeah, and it�s, Mhm. Yeah, that particular piece evoked just, like,
sadness to me too, because I just don�t understand why the country�s so segregated
racially and gender and all the different separations that there are and
I just don�t get why we can�t just talk to each other and, you know, Yeah, , why it exists, So, a sadness comes up. But
I also notice, for me, when you speak about being frustrated and all these things, I suppose
it�s probably because of my upbringing, but I
want to hide, go crawl in a hole, I don�t want, you know, I mean, like, frustration,
anger, I don�t, See? , know what that, But that�s only the issue, You know I�m scared, Yeah. See? Well, Well that annoys you about myself, I�m,
like �Why am I like that?- I don�t get it, but I know it�s because my parents never
showed anger, they kept it very buttoned up, I don�t know what that looks like and, so, Yeah. , when people get angry, I get, People? Give it to you, then you, Yeah, I get, kind of, scared, like �Oh,
it�s drama, just don�t go there,- but it�s not, but I was trying to, like, you
know what I mean, label it and then try to almost think, like -Well, why don�t I usually
go there? Oh, because it�s, just don�t even pay attention there. Just look over here
and,- Right. But I know it�s because I�m trying to,
you know, protect myself, probably, because I don�t, that�s scary territory for me,
you know? Mhm. Yeah, that�s what, But, at the same time I don�t want you to
feel that, I want you to be expressed! Oh, my God, it�s weird, you know? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it�s true, when people talk
with passion or express emotion, that�s, a lot of people just, you know, it scares
them or they�re just, like, uh, you know, shut down. Mhm. That�s the general, and here�s the specific. Yes. So, how is this for you now to hear Danielle
say this to you? Sort of, come into the present, It confirms what I think. Yeah, and what�s the feeling that accompanies
this? The feeling is mainly the, I don�t know
if it�s a feeling, to feel understanding, but I do, Kind of a thought, Yeah, it�s more of a thought, but, Yeah, , in my body, I feel like I understand it.
In other words, it doesn�t make me angry, Right. It doesn�t make me upset, it just makes
me feel, you know, I understand that. I�m not sure how to gage, you know, or how to
behave any differently, but, That�s what I was saying earlier, you know, that�s why
sometimes, I mean, most of the time for me, I have to feel closer to the person before
I can, you know, let�s have some common ground, let�s, you know, get to know each
other a little bit, let�s see if there�s any family, you know, feeling of family or,
like, whatever. You don�t have to have the same opinions of me, you don�t have to agree
with anything that I say, nothing, but before I would just really open up to someone I would
have to feel a closer, a connection to the person. So, you feel now, in terms of that gage, of
that, sort of, being okay or not quite okay. I feel, I feel like I should still be careful. Because I�m, A lot of it, is it the same with me? Not necessarily with you, no. But I feel like
she�s very sensitive, extreme, Not that you�re not sensitive, just in different
ways. Are you calling me insensitive? I said, I believe that you are very sensitive, Just kidding, Don�t really think that, I�m
just kidding. Yeah, But I feel like, Yeah, I don�t know. I don�t want to, I
don�t want her to, Tell her. , feel, I don�t want you to feel uncomfortable. But she does feel uncomfortable, so, I know. So, notice how that is for you, Mhm. , rather than going �Well, that�s not
what I usually do or,- Yeah. See what it�s like for you in this moment
that she�s uncomfortable, like, see if you can just take a pause and sit with the fact
that she�s a little uncomfortable and see in this moment what this is for you, without
going to the �Oh, well, this is why I don�t,- or need something else. Just see if you�re
willing to sit with this fact and, And then see how it feels? Yeah, that�s right, Is that what you�re telling, Is that what
you�re saying? It, Hm, Again, it�s more of thinking instead
of feeling, I, I, I want to talk to her more, so that she doesn�t feel uncomfortable. Yeah, That�s difficult for you to sit with
this place, Yeah. With the discomfort. Yeah. So, yeah. So, see if you can just, if you�re
willing to, sit a little bit more, Mhm. , you know, breathe and be with yourself in
this place, where this is uncomfortable for you being with her discomfort. I don�t feel as anxious, you know, Mhm. But you still feel a little anxious? Yeah, I still feel a little anxious, like, So, can you name to her the anxiety? �I�m
anxious,- What that is? Probably, I want to fix it somehow. Yeah, Yeah. Well, that�s the solution. See if you can
dig a little more, why do you see anxiety, -I�m going to lose connection with you.
You�re not going to like me. I�m not going to like you.- Can you see, Yeah. I, Yeah, well, Yeah, that you would
lose connection, of course, with a person. Okay, but personalize it �I would lose connection
to you.- I would lose connection, I see what you�re
saying, okay. Yeah, that�s the anxiety, is that I would lose connection with you.
Yeah. Mhm. Okay. So, I�m going to invite you to take
even a little step inside that. Okay. So, see if you�re willing to tell her something
about the place that you are losing connection with her, you�re disconnecting from her.
That�s, kind of, challenging, but if you�re willing to look at that, articulate it, Say it again. Where is, That�s what you�re afraid of
happening, Right. , is losing the connection. So, I�m inviting
you to notice where you have lost the connection. In other words, where you have disconnected
from her already. There�s a little bit, somewhere, where you�ve lost the connection
and there�s disconnection, but for you in there, is that you�ve moved out of connection. I�ve moved out of the connection, Yeah. In other words, yeah, I�ve, in other words,
I�ve decided to not, A little bit somewhere, somewhere, now, in
this relationship, in this little process, Yeah. I�ve decided to step back a little
bit, is that what you�re saying? I disconnected from you or something. Yeah. See if you can put that into the I-Thou language.
�I notice that in this place or in that comment or with this tone I disconnect from
you.- or �As I hear you talking about,- When I hear you say that, that my first inclination
is to dis, is to disconnect or that I�m losing connection with you. But I don�t
really feel like I�ve lost connection with her. But when she says it, when I first hear
it, Right, Yeah. Okay. So, when I first hear it, I disconnect
a little. Yeah. Yeah, Step, Or I step back. So, see if you can track the process of that.
Tell her �So, I stepped back a little when I heard that and now I�m stepping forward
a little.- or just say something about, you know, help her understand your process. Okay. So, my process is that I, when I first
heard you say that, I would step back, I�m, like, oh, I don�t want her to get upset, You. , I don�t want her to be, Tell her �you�, directly. I don�t want you to get upset, I don�t
want you to be, to feel like you need to go, you know, like this, in fear, somewhere, or
it�s painful to hear, I don�t want you to experience pain from anything that I�m
saying. Right. So, immediately, I feel like disconnecting,
you know, like I don�t want to, I don�t want her to feel any pain. You. Keep it with �you�, keep it personal. Her. You, you. So, you did disconnect or,? Yeah. Just momentarily I did, but, I guess
I don�t want to lose the connection, so I don�t allow it to stay disconnected, I
make the decision. I make decision, well, no, I want to be connected to you, so I�m
not going to allow that to get into the way, , of having a connection with you. Do you still feel like it affected the connection,
that interaction? Maybe it, No, it made it deeper, actually,
because now I understand something about you that I didn�t know. So, instead of me just thinking that �Oh,
she just doesn�t want to talk about anything. I understand that you, there�s a reason
why, you know, from your upbringing, there�s a reason why you are, you know, retreating
somewhat and, so, I unders, now that I hear that and I understand it, then I don�t allow
myself to, to disconnect from you, because that�s, you know, Right. Because you have that understanding. Mhm. Yeah. How does that feel for you? Did you, how do
you talk about that? It makes me feel closer, because it�s, it
lets me know now that she cares, You. Tell her. You know, that you let me know now that you
care to keep the connection going and willing to work through whatever that, you know, that
was for you to, you know, come back and reconnect anyway, even though maybe part of you wants
to just, I don�t know, disconnect and, I don�t know, I just wanted to, Well the only reason I would
disconnect is because I don�t want you to feel pain. Hm. So, So, tell her something about feeling pain,
tell her, give her some feedback about that, because, you know, she�s very protective
of you about that, so fill her in something about the actuality of how that is for you. I guess I wouldn�t describe it as pain,
the, when I�m experiencing you speaking passionately, What happens, for me, is just
that, again, I think I just label it as just drama or something and I just start wonder
why can�t we just not focus on that and just be at peace. That�s what I do and I
realize how silly that seems, but that�s what I do probably to avoid, you know, feeling
any anger, And, again, I�m a sponge, so then I might absorb any anger or, or just,
you know, whatever it fee, what I think is, I�d label as negative, Even if it�s just
passion. So, maybe I�m just trying to, you know, protect myself, But that�s the way
it affects me. It�s not painful, it�s just, kind of, like, uhh, you know, kind of,
trying to protect myself, I guess. Right. I don�t know if that, if that makes sense
or if that�s a feeling, really, but, Yeah, Fear of what might happen, what happens if
you get more passionate, stand up and that�s when it might happen, like, what�s going
to ha, Someone might get hurt, I don�t know, This is going to get out of control! Yeah, Like I believe that, but, that�s what�s
going on, you know, Well, to articulate that, in a way, it sounds
like you might say to her �Well, for a moment, you were out of control, from my point of
view, and that was scary.- or, you know, that some, like, again, it�s the fear of getting
out of control, but then there�s the actuality. So, I keep wanting to bring you to the actuality
and say something about that. �To me it looked like you are out of control for a moment
and I was freaking out.- or, that, you know, something about substance of that experience. I suppose, maybe I, It�s hard to admit,
you know? Sure. It was hard for her to admit that, Right, Because, again, I�m trying a bit
playing nice too, Yeah, yeah, you both try to protect each other
and, you know, Well, she wasn�t out of control, she was
trying to get out of control, For her it was out of control, you see? Alright, yes, that I agree. From my perspective, From your perspective that was the step out
of the control. I suppose so, Right. That little bit of, Right. Wow, okay, So, you know, say, I�m inviting
you to say something to her directly. Okay. -When I experienced you as out of control,
then I felt,- Right. Yeah, when I experienced the fire,
fiery, Your fire. Your fire, Yeah. Yeah, I felt out of control and I wanted,
I want to calm it down or I wanted to, yeah, Calm you down. Yeah, I guess I wanted to calm you down. Mhm. I wanted to control you, in other words. Right? Right. So, tell her. Okay. So, then I wanted to, yeah, control
you. That sounds funny. Well, it sounds funny, but it is your experience
and isn�t that what we�re talking about? I guess I hadn�t seen it like that. Yeah. Calming someone down, it�s, kind of, like, Yeah. , controlling them. Absolutely. It is. Well, what I really want to do is go crawl
in a hole. Right. Yeah. That�s the other way. That�s actually what I, you know, That�s
right. So, I didn�t experience wanting to calm her down. I wanted, I wanted to let her
be, but I wanted to save myself and go run into a hole. So, that�s really what was
happening. In other words, rather than control you, I�m
withdrawing. Exactly. Yeah. And then I would cut the connection. So, tell her. So, then, I would be cutting the connection. Mhm. Which I don�t really want to do. The scared
part of me does. But if you keep talking like that, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is the authentic communication,
you know? So busy trying to protect or not wanting to go there, but that�s a way of
not noticing when you do go there or noticing what is here, which is the substance of the
communication, actually, like, that is what�s available for contact. Yeah. So, while we�re all scaring away from, you
know, the quality of actually connecting around what�s difficulty bridges us, you know? Right. And I�m noticing, like, when you�re
telling, you�re just being very honest with me, Mhm. , and you�re, kind of, wanting to hold back,
but then you�re just telling me, I�m like �Okay! Bring more, I don�t care!- But
then as I�m telling you my truth, I�m horrified, like, I�m just, my whole face
is hot, I�m, like, I hate this, I don�t want to tell you anything, you�re fine,
you�re perfect, like, So, it�s, like, it�s hard for me to express that. Yeah, But, yet, you�re still sitting here and
you seem fine. Right, So, And I don�t know, are you fine? Like,
how do you feel? Oh, yeah, I totally understand it. Yeah. Does it make you want to shut down more or
is this actually, No, but I do notice that, and even with myself,
I�m, you know, sitting with some group of people and they start, you know, ranting and
raving too much about the world, I�d want to run and jump in a hole too, you know, if
they get onto the, you know, the outer limits of, you know, everything�s a conspiracy
thing, then I enjoy it to a degree, but then after a while I just want it to stop. Right. And I�ll even avoid those people if possible.
So, yeah, I know, I totally understand it. Yeah. I don�t, like, totally understand
it, but, Right. , I do understand it. Yeah. So, how�s this for you, watching this process? Well, it reminds me how I need to be careful
sometimes, Yeah, , if I�ll express myself. I don�t want
to overstep on anybody�s toes. At the same time, sometimes it�s not, you know, you
just, their toes are already underneath my feet when it�s landing, so it�s, There�s
so much as I can do. It�s like it�s always like trying to find a balance, you know, how
can I be myself in real time communication. And I find often I have to explain myself
a lot. No, that�s not my intention, you know? And if the other person can hear it,
it�s fine, but, you know, we do run our stories, so it�s difficult when trying to
communicate with someone not to run my story and just, and it�s even more difficult to
just trying to worry that, Like then I�ve been around their story, but they will, you
know, so, But, I guess, for me, like, my friends, it�s like that, you get into a understanding
and then you talk and then you fight and then you resolve it and then you get closer together
and then you, kind of, accept this, the next time it happens you�re not even going to
talk about it because you know your friend, rather than being in constant explanation
and, kind of, constant checking in �Are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay?- you
know, if you�re not, you have to tell me, you know? And then we talk about it, but,
Just, like, what it reminds me is, like, how much I hold myself back in communication because
I�m trying to protect the other person, you know? Or you look at it from the other
perspective, it�s, like, how much responsibility I�m trying to take about how I communicate
so that they don�t get upset, you know? It�s just impossible not to get upset when
you have interactions. Maybe, like, some, someone would step on someone�s toes even
if they don�t want to, by mistake, you know? So, what�s your gage, you know, with these
two women here and the little group? Like, if you put it even in a numerical gage or
something, on a one out of ten, ten is that you feel completely free to say anything and
one is that you�re very careful and constrained, like, what
do you notice is your gage so far and your experience, It is low, very low key, like, like, sometimes
I have these impulses, take some friends from abroad and put them in a Greek vacation setting
with all, everybody go -AAAR! AAAR! and you get the fire, the baptism by fire and then
you come out and say �Okay.- So, for me, it�s very low key this kind of interaction.
It�s not like, yes, OK, It�s like, it�s not confrontation or the, you know, it�s
honest, you know, which is important, and sometimes that�s missing, when you get too
impulsive and into your own emotions, you know, you can miss the honesty, I don�t know, in fact, sometimes I feel
like, , like, a question I ask sometimes myself
in communication with people you love and you care about is why, why my story becomes
more important than the love, you know? And that�s where you need to have a conversation,
you know, if your story becomes more important than, Because when you love the other person,
it�s just, like, you engage more in the connection and then the little stories around
it, doesn�t matter, just still need to keep the connection, you know? I don�t even know
if I�m explaining that right, but, Sure, So, if you were to again come right
into this relationship here and if you were to unrestrict yourself a bit, you know, what�s
one thing that you might more spontaneously bring forward to one of these women or to
both of them? What is something that you would, But the spontaneous is spontaneous. Now, you, Well, that�s true. However, I�m inviting
you to notice, without it being completely stream of consciousness, but I, yeah, I�m
inviting you to, to pay attention to, One thing I do a lot of in these, like, it�s
really difficult to hold back is teasing. Uh huh, Okay, so, if you were to tease one
of them, if, you know, She had a bit of an experience of that, Of course. It�s, like, -Why you enjoy this?- I said
�Yes, I�m enjoying this.- Yeah, it tickles. -Why you do this?- �Yes, because I�m enjoying
it.- Okay, so, if you, you know, experiment a little, Right now? , right now, what�s something you�d like
to tease them about, either, They have to be in conversation while I do
it, I was holding myself back, you see, I was, Okay. You have the camera here, we have a coordinator,
it�s, like, But if you were to, kind of, come in retrospectively, Yeah. , what�s one of the teasing places for you? Yeah, probably, like, now I would go, do like
this, I�ll mirror her, Reall. Tell, So, Mimic, is that teasing? Yeah, mimic, like, mirroring, you know, that�s
one way to do it. So, how is that for you, that he just, kind
of, like,? Oh, it�s very familiar. Okay, so, you, give him the feedback. Like,
he needs to know, Oh, it�s very familiar to me, because, And, so, just give him the comfortable okay/not
okay feedback, just explicitly. I�m comfortable with it. I think it�s
hysterical when people mimic, Right, okay. Yeah, So, there�s, there�s a green light. So,
keep going. What else would you pick up to tease, in either in what they said or how
they are or,? How they are? Like, I would, like, say, if they say �Well,
yeah, I�m feeling more relaxed now.- and the hands are like this, I�d say �Oh,
yeah, really? You�re more relaxed now?- you know, Yeah, -Is that your relaxed state?- Yeah, So, yeah, Can you imagine, , I�m just creating more awareness of what�s, Can you imagine the tense state? Can I imagine the tense state? I would tease
her this weekend and she, she punches really, like, she needs to control, here she goes,
Like, she gets angry, she just goes pwooh, pwhooh, It�s not that harsh. Yeah, she�s, No, no, you�re just the type.
You are really strong. And she was even very proud when I told her that, she said �Oh,
did I hurt you?- she said �Yeah, I know, I have very strong hands.- That was your response.
So, yeah, I mean, I would use the, the, I would challenge on the, on the, on the truth
that the person speaks. Or if, like, say, one of my favorite, Again, it�s difficult
to say, to bring it here, because it�s, kind of, there�s nothing much happening
right now, you know, it�s, like, if I knew that when they were talking, then I would
have done something. Right, right. I did have the impulse a couple of times to
just jump up and do something, just startle them, you know? But, you know, one of my favorite
things is, like, you can imagine me, like, I like keeping the house clean. Mhm. And, so, you know, if we finish eating, I
will be washing the dishes if we had guests, so a lot of it is, like, I�m washing the
dishes and we�re talking about guest and, you know, I have women around me, not the
ones that know me very well, but, for example, like this, you know, a couple of us, well,
this actually is a woman�s job, it�s not a man�s job and I would say that especially
while I�m washing the dishes and while I�m very comfortable doing it and I just see them
go, phwahh, To provoke, So, why shouldn�t you do this? You know,
I don�t understand this, like, And, yeah, So, you like stirring the pot, Yes, I, You�re the trouble maker. , since very young, yes. Provoke, yeah, It is the jester, like the joker in the, You like provoking people. Yeah. And I keep reminding myself, like, the
joker is the only one that can tell the king the truth without losing its head, but, Yeah. Sometimes you would have to be worried about
losing your head when you do these things. Okay. So, I�m going to give you a little
invitation. Yeah. So, what�s one piece of truth that you�d
like to offer to these to women right now? Just, you know, what you know, what you�ve
experienced. Give them a piece joke truth. I actually cannot even breathe, how can I
say a joke, You said that you�ve got to (breathe in noise). You can�t breathe! , and she goes, But she�s also said she�s, you know, she
was, Even the prospect, even, , she�s given the green light to you, so
maybe that�s true and, Come on, just breathe in. , cognitively, she�s, Yeah, I don�t, I, Yeah, So, you see, it
doesn�t work, like, for me, it works like a joke, you know? Right, You know, if, I don�t want to tell anybody
the truth, unless I�m in the conversation just feels like it, Like, right now, you know,
it�s, like, what�s my place to say to any of these women my truth, but, What can
I say, it�s just chill, like, relax a bit, hug a bit, you know, it�s just, I don�t
know what else to say in this case, because it�s, like, a lot of conversation, that�s
what, OK, before, so it�s, like, why I wanted to jump in suddenly, because there�s a lot
of conversation about an issue that can be resolved with just, playing. You know, if
you play a game or you get, like, I was having a sense of, you know, everybody�s playing
a game on the beach, we�re playing frisbee or we�re chasing each other around and then
we have the conversation, which has already, like, melted the ice a lot. So, a lot of,
for me, it�s sometimes a conversation goes there where the interaction needs to be somewhere
else, you know, it can be in the physical, it can be, You know, you can talk for months,
you know, how difficult is for me to, to let go and hug and then you just start hugging
and see what happens and you get a bit scared and, you know? It�s, like, what you said,
you know, I have experienced that with you, actually. It�s, like, you were saying I
want to hug you and shake you, I want to hug you, I have this
teddy bear, My urge is �Should I? Should I do it?- Mhm. So, yeah. But especially if you�re an adult,
you can get misunderstood so quickly. Mhm, Even if you play the same game that they�re
playing, you know? I had a friend that, she was colleague of mine, but she was English,
like, English, But she, she was also, like, she had done a lot of work with this. So the
first time, the way I met her it was on the reception where I was, in the place where
I was studying and I get a slap on my ass and I turn around and say �How dare you
slap me? Who are you?- and I said �Just getting you to stay put, giving permission.-
But then we find ourselves years after that and she is in Greece and playing around, she�s
having fun on the beach and stuff like that and as we were having fun, she goes POW and
she slaps me really hard and I turn around and I did the same thing and she hurts because
I hurt too and she starts giving me all the shit suddenly, I said �Whoa, it wasn�t
that hard.- I said �Look, I have, I have marks, you don�t, so mine was less.- So,
you know, it�s, like, Yeah, I often encounter that, you know, it�s,
like, you play in the same level or plain, you know, when you play, you get injured.
It�s often that the case, you know, you can get hurt, you know, because you�re trying
to get away while I�m tickling you and you bang your head, your hand in the wall behind
you and then there�s blame �Why did you do that?- because �Now, you see, I�m hurt.-
So, I have ended up, when I play fight I�m watching the person�s head, the person�s
elbows and I�m, my hands are like this while I�m tickling, you know, so they don�t
injure themselves. So, yeah, that�s� what cuts me a bit from interaction, but I, thank
God, I have some friends that they can be like that too. Right. So, it sounds like you�re, you�re,
kind of, like a little, I mean, I�d call it a little dangerous edge, a little risky
edge, No, it�s not dangerous, Well, not dan, potentially, there�s an edge
there. Yes. There is an edge. There is an edge where someone could get hurt, Yeah. , or someone could be upset or something. Like, when you�re trying to walk and you
run then is, potentially you can fall down and, So, you�re a bit of a risk taker, in that
sense? You, kind of, like, sounds like the excitement of the, kind of, the risk, the
jumping in, the provoking, The jumping is, it�s risky, I don�t like
the risk, that�s why I�m trying to hold my, I don�t like the potential of someone
feeling injured by, Right. So, you�re afraid of the impact, Yeah. , and yet, there�s a part of you who wants
to come forward, Play, yeah. Right. So, there�s these, sort of, two forces, Yeah. So, I met now, I was, I spent the weekend
and I went to Althite to babysit this girl and I canceled other appointments, because
my friend called me last minute and the only reason is because this girl, when I tickle
her, I do things with, to her, she goes �More! Tickle me more!- Tired, So, her mom, before
she left us, she goes �Okay, both of you, no means no, because we don�t play that
game.- and I said �Yes, you�re right, especially for future relationships, -and
no bruises.- Now, when she says �No, bruises.- she doesn�t mean only me not bruising her
daughter, if that happens, she means also her daughter bruising me, because that happens.
But we�re very excited, both of us, when we play. So, this, it�s, like, it�s a
level of engagement that is, I miss a lot, I only have with very few people in my life
and, yeah, it�s, it�s dangerous in a sense that you have to be careful, because it�s
not about, I don�t have a mindless game, you know, or not the idea of fun that can
really, you know, I, I think a little bit like you think for events, Mhm. I think when I�m everywhere, like, I could
see this plug is on the, Yeah, , flammable or this, you know, it�s, I work
like that. So, the same when I play. So, it�s not the mindless game, you know? Right. At the same time you do get bruised. Is it
danger, I don�t know, I mean, your skin, you know, if you do like this, it gets red,
you know? You accept that you�ll get hurt or someone, I mean, eh, but, yes, but the other, it is
to find another person that can play in the same, so I don�t have to, that they don�t
feel over, Protective? Yeah. Okay. So, having heard Theo talk about this
is him and this is how he is and these are his parameters and dynamics, you know, what�s
your response? What… what happens for you? What, what gets evoked in you when you hear
him? Give him some feedback. Well, I have a difficult time playing, period.
You know, I sure do, Yeah. I always feel I can play if someone�s
playful, but I can�t initiate play myself, or I don�t, let�s put it that way. Of
course I could, but, yeah. So, that was very interesting to hear. Okay. So, there�s the interesting. Yeah. What�s the feeling, though? The feeling is, -As, you know, Theo, as you talk about yourself and play, I, my response
is,- what�s the feeling response? I wish I could be more playful, if, So, tell him. , if that�s a feeling. -I wish I could be more like you.- or �I
wish I could, I wisch I could be more like you. , do that with you.- Like, give him, Yeah. , give it to him very personal, very interpersonal. I, I, I wish I could play more, you know,
just spontaneously that way, or recognize it in someone else that they want to play.
They have to, I feel they have to show me that they can, want to play before I, you
know, So, I wish I could feel it from the person. Okay. So, in a way, you are feeling it because
he�s giving it to you. So, Right. , if you come here, Well, he�s telling me about it. He�s telling you. I can�t feel it in him. You can�t feel it in him, No. Okay. So, give him some very personal feedback.
�I�d like to play with you and I need to feel it a bit more.- Like, really tell
him, in a very tuned manner about yourself on the other end of him. Just be careful what you want. Yeah. I�m not sure I want to play with that. See? Well, tell, talk to him about the dynamic
of that. Tell him a bit about the do and the don�t and give him some fine detail, you
know, -I�m a bit wary and I don�t understand, I hear what you�re saying about, even, you
know, it does feel a little bit scary for me that, you know, could get hurt playing, Mhm. With you, , with you and then it brings up, yeah, I
had to watch my brothers and sisters and make sure they didn�t get hurt while they were
playing and I had to be in charge of them playing, you know, so, that, sort of, brings
up for me, so I which I could just be more playful myself and, Okay. So, personalize that. Okay. -I almost wish I could be more playful with
you.- See how that feels, Yeah. , to bring it directly. I wish I could be more playful with you. I
probably could be, if you were, you know, if there was a banter back and forth. But
I don�t, I couldn�t initiate it. After you get the first five times bruises, Yeah. , you get used to it. Yeah. Yeah. That�s what I�m saying. And tell your father, Yeah. -Now, you�re going to see,- Is he still
alive? No. Oh. Well, when you pray and stuff, Yeah. Even the army allows 10% of fatality, you
know, the rate, you know, Yeah, Yeah, so, what it feels like to tell him that
directly, to communicate that to Theo? Oh, it feels good, it feels authentic and
it feels real and it feels, you know, present. And I would encourage you to be more playful, With me. , with me. Own it. Yeah, with me. With me. Yeah, okay. Or anybody. Or anybody, Oooooh! No, it would be fun, it would be fun, No, she�s not certain, she�s not, she�s
not certain that, No, I�m just saying, in general, it would
be fun for me to even see him being more playful, period. So, -I�d like you, I�d like to watch you
be more playful with her.- Yeah. Like that? So, I�m safe. Yeah. So I, yeah. So, say something about that. Who�s going to protect Danielle? Danielle�s
going �Mmm, interesting.- Well, I�m scared for her too, I don�t
want her to get hurt, Right, Because I want to protect her. Did anybody ask me? Well, it�s all theoretical, I�m still, I�m still in charge of the
play. Right. Okay. So, then, maybe you can give
him the contradictory you. You know �I�d li, I�d rather you play with her because
then I�m, I can feel a bit safer, but then I�m, you know, wary of that that she,- you
know, give him, give him some of the, Yeah, it just brings up, it�s bringing up
all these images of watching my brother and sisters play and I see my, my little sister
sliding down the banister, head first, without, you know, me knowing and she landed on the
ground, split her chin open, all of her teeth are moving around, you know, we had to call
an ambulance. We were in England and I was supposed to be in charge. So, yeah, I don�t
want you to get hurt, you know, I want you to play with her, but I�m, in the back of
my mind, I�m, like, okay, don�t get, you know, I�ve got to keep my eyes on them. Yeah, Yeah. That�s right, that�s the �you� as
well in that. Yeah. Yeah. I�m sure she was having fun
while she was laying down, but, Or afterwards. Yeah. So, what happens for you, when you hear her
details about this? She�s not ready to play. There�s a part of her that wants to. Yeah. So, I would start gently, like, Tell her, tell her. I would start gently, like, With you. Tickling for five continuous minutes or, Are
you ticklish? No? Yeah, so that�s probably too much, but one
minute, That�s gentle. Oh, cool, cool, we can be friends. But that, That�s the contact. Yeah, five minutes is
too much, one minute could be okay. I�m just saying, I said, But that�s her, No, I�m quite sure. Five minutes I said,
minimum. That�s over the top. I�m just kidding, I don�t know, I just,
I think what happens a lot to us, like, if you start playing with someone else, then,
if the other person feels he has permission, then jump in. Mhm. Okay, so you do have a bit of permission,
but she�s giving you the one minute permission. Yeah, look, this, it might not even be physical,
it�s even the, the verbal kind of teasing and stuff like that, you know? Right. Like, even that, you know, it�s, I enjoy teasing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that�s, like, you
know, it�s, like, probably, like, let�s say we�re in the social environment, you
know, and because of your age, you�re not a child any more, they want to play, Yeah, , whatever. Except if you initiate it. So,
if I see it, Yeah. , then it�s okay, I have permission. Right. But it�s probably like a verbal play, you
know, like, with not, it�s not politically correct or something. Okay. So, then there�s, like, you, you�re
initiating and there�s, like, you, you�re initiating. So, there�s, kind of, a little
bit of, kind of, caution, Dance. , on both your parts, Yeah. , about the initiation of it. So, it�s life experience, I am cautious. Yeah. Well, but you�re both cautious. Yeah. I�m just pointing out what�s happening
in the relationship. But there is some, but for me, I feel there
is fun in that, even being cautious and just, So, tell him, give him a little bit more about
yourself. Okay. So, there, So he knows about it. , for me, there is.. it�s fun to be cautious
and to watch the other person�s reactions and, you know, see if they�re going to be
more playful or more teasing. I enjoy that, Mhm. , stage of it, too, it doesn�t have to be
just jumping right into teasing. Yeah, I know, of course. Yeah. Yeah. It�s an easy, easy, but, Easy or is just, No, high quality, easing in, high quality
expression, when you go slowly and, Yeah. That�s right. Yeah, it�s, that means something different
for me than it might mean to you, so, it�s, Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the basic way, for me,
is in the interactions. Like, if I like someone, is tease them, because if they cannot handle
that, Right. , I cannot be myself with them. Right. So, that�s the principle. So, here�s
some of the detail, you know, here�s the detail with her, of how that can work in contact. Mhm. So, that she�s got a desire for it, she�s
a little scared of it, she�d like you to initiate it, but she�s also willing to be
pushed a bit. So, you know, this is like the fine detail of where the contact edge can
be between you. So, you can bring in yourself, but it�s a little modulated, but it�s
just not modulated in some blanker ways. A very fine tunely modulated way that she�s
letting you know how this can work at the edge where it�s not going to be too dangerous,
but, you know, there�s an important communication here. Mhm. So, then, you, like the wiser me, that is
older, you would play with someone else and then she�ll get a bit jealous and then she
would want to come in and when she comes in I get carried, Yeah, Because in the old days I would just cause, Yeah, yeah, yeah. , trouble, you know? Yeah. There�s no point for me. I just want to
play, I don�t want to get in trouble all the time. Yeah, Yeah. Well, that�s, that�s your
spontaneous, more, well, if I make a judgment, child self. Yes. And, so, yeah, there�s a modulation here
of your bubbly, playful, provocative, you know, don�t care child self and the, you
know, if we could call it the adult self, where you�re getting, you know, the fine
detail of the communication and the attenuation of just how that�s going to really work
in relationship without her getting overwhelmed or just, sort of, falling dead. Okay, so what
about you? Give some feedback to Theo. Oh God. So, for me, I notice how I feel, like,
it could be dangerous, like, that�s why I shy away from it. And I was trying to, like,
figure out why, why is it dangerous but I guess I�m afraid that there might be sexual
energy exchange and I guess that that scares me and, like, what, what does that mean, for
me, for, you know what I mean, our friendship and stuff. So, like, Okay, so, great. So, see if you can really
personalize that. �I�m afraid that you might get too sexual in your energy with me.-
like, really just put it there. I�m afraid that you might get too sexual
in our energy. I might. You never know. What did you think? That I�ll make you comfortable? I think with, like, most men in my past, it
has been, yeah, it�s gotten, It scares me. Like, I�ve had, you know, past experiences
where it�s just too much aggressive energy. Even though I thrust you and I�m, like,
you know, I�m getting to know you as a friend. So, you, kind of, challenge that, for sure. Well, up to now, you hit and kick more than
me, so, Okay. So, how does that feel for you, to hear that
from her? I�m aware of that. You�re aware of that. What�s the feeling
in this moment, to hear right now? Damn it! I pull myself back. Yeah. So, tell her that. Tell her you�re
disappointed. Damn it, I have to hold myself back. At least she knows you�re red blooded male. I�m not sure what that means. Just, Yeah, maybe you can say something about yourself
in there, like, Okay. What does that do for you? You know, maybe
you can tell Theo, well, where are you at with the sexual, erotic dimension of the play. Where am I at? Yeah, Oh, I�m, I, totally, that came out of left
field for me, I didn�t, didn�t think that at all. So, But I understand what you�re
saying and I can see where, you know, that could be an issue. So, what part of it is an issue? Well, Wait a second, for you. So, own that. What�s
it, For me, Where is that for you? For me it�s not an issue. Okay. I don�t feel that tease, that your teasing
or that your playing or anything is, would become sexual, No. Maybe, but it could be
with someone else, but I�m just saying the here and now, with this person right here.
So, when I heard that, I was, like, -Wow, I didn�t even consider it.- Well, okay. Yeah. True. Yeah. So, it could, you know, you didn�t consider
that or it couldn�t be, Yeah. What if you just locate yourself a little
bit more and see what that were like for you? Like, see if you can, kind of, own yourself
around that. So �I, am not interested in that with you.- or �I could be a little
bit interested.- or, What if you just, like, look at yourself in that domain? You know,
if I can, She�s biting her lips again. So, I don�t feel, but, if I don�t feel that
and I don�t think it, Right. You mean, try to imagine it? Well, yeah, Or consider where, because she�s
picking up something and you�re not and who knows what�s� that about. But I�m
just inviting you to locate yourself a little bit about, well, if you do consider play and
its erotic dimension with Theo, Mhm. How is that for you? Like, like, is that something
you�re just not interested in or you don�t want to know about or you�re fine for that
to be, like, totally in the background or, it�s just completely not interesting to
you, that side of it or,? It�s just, Well, first of all, my brain
doesn�t work that way. Right. I don�t think about sex relating to everything,
you know. So, I just don�t. Okay. So, it�s hard for me to even go there. So, what, So, then, yeah. Yeah. -My play with you feels completely non-sexual
in any way, Yeah. , and I can�t even imagine how that could
come into it.- Something like that. It doesn�t feel physically sexual. Right. No. Okay. And how�s that for you, to hear that. It�s fine. Yeah. Yeah. I�m, play can go many different directions.
It can go to fight, to making love, to any kind of, Damage. Yeah, and it�s, depends
what�s fully agreed with them, You did jump in, though, so there was a little
something there, there was a little something… Oh, maybe I just didn�t want her to be afraid.
Like, okay, he�s just a man, you know? See if you can just own a little bit that
�red blooded male� thing. See if you personalize that, even though it�s not the domain that
you, kind of, go to, or something, but what�s your energy in that? Just see if you can catch
that spark for you, rather than making it about her. Well, I mean, men are sexual, I mean, men
are sexual beings. Women are sexual beings. Yeah. So, but he, you said, Okay. -At least he�s a red blooded male.- So,
if, like, if you look at, for instance, if you�re willing to do this, if you look at
Theo and you say to him �At least you�re a red blooded male.- and see what, Yeah. , that feels like, to say that to him. Well, I�m maybe, Well, however he behaves. So, tell him directly, tell, if you�re willing
to try, just try that sentence to him and see what it feels like to say that. At least, What do you mean? Just say what
I said? Yeah. �At least you�re a red blooded male.-
Tell him directly. At least you�re a red blooded man. And what does it mean? It�s just, like, an English saying that,
you know, it just means that you�re very masculine. Okay. So, what do you feel on the other end
of him being a red blooded man? I feel like that�s normal. That�s your judgment. Yeah. Yeah. What�s the feeling, though? Then you, kind
of, just look at him for a moment as the red blooded man, Right. What�s the feeling that you have on the
other end of the red blooded man? Happy. I just, Okay. I don�t, Yeah. So, tell him something about that. �I enjoy
your maleness.- or see if you can, Oh, yeah, okay, I, that�s true. That is
true. I see where you�re going. I enjoy that about you, that you are a man, you know,
in your male body, behaving like a man and acting like a man and talking like a man and,
you know, and feeling like a man. -And I, on the other end of that, I feel,- On the other end of that, I feel, well, maybe
that makes me feel more female. Like, okay, Maybe. See if you can go look low, take, OK, it makes me, Okay. It makes me feel more
female because you�re, you are holding the space of a man. Good. So, Yeah. , if you�re willing to, Yeah, , come into the moment and feel your femaleness
in relationship to him in this moment, just see what�s that like to feel that, to be
present with that in this moment, just have that little contact. There he is in all his
maleness and that allows you to come into your femaleness. Just notice how that is for
you, how that feels in your body. Well, it feels empowering. Yeah. Maybe it gives permission for me to be female. Yeah, Maybe that�s what comes up for me, I find
myself having to be a man in the world. Yeah. So, here�s a place, Yeah. , right here, where you can be more the woman. Mhm. Yeah. So, take this moment and just, kind of, let
yourself, Oh, it feels good. , enjoy that. Oh, yeah, I�m enjoying it. Then see if you can, Yeah. , make that personal statement to him. �I�m
enjoying feeling like a woman on the other end of you.- I�m enjoying feeling like a woman in the
presence of a man, you know, in the presence of you as a man. Yeah. Thank you. Mhm. Good. So, what�s happening for you? Like,
you know, we had a little side conversation and back to you. Sorry, And the, Oh, no, I don�t want you to apologize, I know, , I appreciated that. It makes me happy, Yeah. , to see her see that, make that connection. Mhm. Okay. Because I have done that as well and I do
tend to do that and go into my, kind of, more male and, you know, when I worked full time
in corporate America, you know, you, kind of, take on the role and it�s very male
oriented and then where does the female go? I don�t know. And then, you know, not having
that support, and then not knowing what that looks like, and then just to, like, rest your
shoulder, like she did on you earlier, it feels amazing. So, it�s just really beautiful
to watch that connection and then, Yeah. Things like that. And if you come back to you now and the, I knew you�re going to say that. , you know, that you�re, you know, wary
of, you know, your energy getting too sexual with me, Hm, So, see what else you might say about that
to Theo, what do you might tell him about yourself in just a little more nuance. I guess it�s just adding to what I was saying
before, it�s just my past, which I never really want to bring to any present friendship
or relationship or anything, but men have been pretty much just dangerous zone for me.
Even when I try to make friends with my male friends, it never works and, and, so, if I
try to keep the friendship, like, interesting dynamics happen where it just becomes sexual,
like, there�s never, you know, I mean, I, people say �Well, that�s just men for
you.- and, like, okay, you know, it�s men, but, I guess, for me, my experience has been
the predator, kind of, energy and it, you know, it�s not comfortable. That scares
me. Not saying that�s you at all. In fact, I don�t find that at all, I don�t and
then it feels so innocent and that�s why I�m like �What is this? What is this?
What is this? What is this? This is new. This is different. I don�t understand.- Like,
I don�t feel that with you. But, then, of course, there�s still that, you know, baggage
or whatever in my past. Okay. So, if, if you�d be willing to, if
you can recognize something, I am, I got it. , can you name something of your predator
in relationship to her? If that�s something that you can locate, Predator, Yeah, well, she�s talking about, I mean,
I think you can get some version of that, but, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So, if you�re willing to name something
with her that, so she can actually locate where it is, because she�s, doesn�t experience
it, but she�s afraid of it. So, I�m inviting you to, kind of, bring that out and say something
to her about, well, -Here is the part of me that�s a bit of a predator with you.- Oh, okay. Like dessert, I�m sorry, I can�t resist it. Yeah, that�s it. No, well, that is his way
of doing it, you know? Right. That�s, there�s a little bit of it, did
you feel that? Yeah, Danielle? Danielle? Muffin? Cupcakes? Uhm, let me think. I mean, I, he�s joking,
so it�s hard, No, you don�t know. Eyeaha, I�m maybe joking, but behind the joke can
be something real. Well, yeah. In any joke there�s a little
slipper of something. Mhm. Yes. Mhm. You know, no matter how hard, You�re a beautiful woman, you�re attractive,
you�re cute, you�re clever, you�re blond, but that�s okay, So, yeah, within the joke, that he�s being
very playful about, he�s also, Mhm. He�s so, There is an edge, yeah. So, how, just so I�m,
you know, I invited him to do it before and he did it in that way, so I�m inviting you
to notice what is it like to encounter that edge? And tell him directly. I didn�t even know this was here. Hm? I guess it�s scary and it feels weird saying
that as an adult woman, like, So, even personalize it more. �I�m a little
scared of you.- or �I�m little scared of that part of you.- Okay. I�m a little scared of that part of
you. Okay. I can understand that, cupcakes. No,
I want, Okay, look. So, okay. So, I have been with women all my life, okay, and beautiful
women. So, of course, you know, I�m straight male, There is going to be some sexual energy
as well. But for me this energy is, Like, if there�s not response from the other person,
it�s nonexistent, because for me, the way I see things, a woman is not an object. So,
unless there�s equivalent of that, then this is something I need to work within myself.
Now, if there is a response, then other things can happen, you know? So, So, I understand
what you�re saying because I have seen, like, there is an entitlement sometimes when
people feel this energy, it�s, like, what you see sometimes, like victims of rape are
blamed for not, for being too s, even if they did something that was out of bounds in the
society they live, they were too, revealing too much or whatever, it doesn�t give permission
from someone else just because someone is aroused by that, to violate their boundaries,
you know? It is not okay. So, you know, if you�re scared of me because I did something
specifically, then you tell me. Mhm. If you�re scared because of your past experience,
then, again, we can have a conversation. But seeing you as a beautiful woman doesn�t
mean I�m going to do something that you are not okay with. And it will spoil the relationship,
because the friendship is how we�re starting. I don�t know, I mean, I never, I mean, just
this weekend some thoughts came in, but, you know, my thing is, like, I value you as a
person. So, the rest is, if it�s not, it cannot be explored, I don�t know Eden, I
cannot tell you �Yeah, I fancy you as a woman.- Like, I say yes, there is an attraction,
but, you know, that can be play, you know? I have a lot of friends that, you know, nothing
happened and there�s, like, a slight attraction but we, none of us wanted to move, that wasn�t
even in conversation, you know, it just naturally, just evolved in friendship. And there�s
maybe sexual tension sometimes and sexual jokes, but not enough from both sides to,
something to happen, you know? So, you know, that�s a risk you have to take. Mhm. Okay. So, how do you feel as he gives his
wall? So much, so much safer and just, like, so
much relief. Yeah. Like, it didn�t feel like it took much, I was just, like �Oh,
okay, that�s where you stand with that.- Okay, Yeah, And I just really admire that in you,
because I don�t, I have many examples of other ways of being. So, as a man, I really
admire you. Yeah. It�s not, again, it�s a preference.
Like, it�s, the way I am, it�s not something I have ever taken credit for, you know? It�s
just this is what I like, you know, this is what attracts me, this is what, you know,
if there�s not desire from both parts, there�s, it�s different kind of holding you do, you
know? Mhm. Good. Okay. Well, I�m just probably going
to start winding down. So, yeah, I�m really appreciative of all your willingness to, kind
of, be a little pushed by me into the, you know, I keep steering you into the, as we
say in Gestalt, the here and now, I and Thou, to really take what�s been talked about
in more general terms and, sort of, really pay attention to the, as I say, the contact
boundary, as it exists between you and in doing so, you move towards a more intimate,
I would describe, conversation which has more of you in it and more of the other person
and more of what�s present. And that�s always a risk and, you know, you�ve taken
those risks and as a result, sort of, I think, gone to a deeper level, that�s how it looks
to me. I appreciate all of you taking those risks. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So, how�s it been for you? Just, you know,
say, say a couple of things about how you�ve experienced this process. I really enjoyed relating authentically and
just saying what�s there and, like, doing it on my own is, kind of, hard, but then having
this facilitation really helps a lot and it�s just freeing to be able to communicate like
that. For me, it�s always more difficult when
I bring it outside of the context of the interpersonal relationship. Like, I can have this conversation
much easier if one to one, Mhm. , than if it�s, like, I�m in a group and
I have to expose myself in a group. Right. So, this, kind of, number�s good
for this sort of conversation for you? Yeah. I mean, I have been in bigger groups
for long periods, but, you know, I prefer the one to one contact. Then I�m not afraid.
Like, of course I will find my edges in there, in turn, but it�s easier for me to just
really see if in, the relationship is important, just talk with the person. I don�t like
to expose in a group. And even thinking like �Oh, someone will be watching this for the
next ten years.- I wasn�t thinking that, but now I�m thinking it. Did I sign the
paper before we started? What about you? I�m just thinking about every, you know,
just meeting people and having conversation and connecting with people and everybody coming
to the table with a bunch of stuff, you know, all of their sensitivities and, you know,
their childhood and just everybody coming to the table with all of that and it�s easy
to be misunderstood or take a joke wrong or to take a, you know, one liner incorrectly
or whatever. It was, I enjoyed the, the interaction and also your, you know, pushing to keep personalizing
it and keep going deeper into it and, But,and being mindful of everyone and, you know, to
stay mindful that everyone is sensitive and coming to the table with all their stuff. It�s not that easy to communicate authentically. Yeah. That�s right. It�s risky. Mhm, it�s risky, yeah. What�s the worst that can happen? Well, that�s right. So, what happens here
is you do it and then you see and there it is and that�s the experience, that�s part
of me pushing, encouraging, supporting you to take those risks to find out, well, what
does happen when you, Right. , step into something more authentic and more
particular. Right. Good. Well, thanks very much everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Author: Kennedi Daugherty

4 thoughts on “Group Therapy demonstration: Interactive group

  1. When the woman talks about what she feels she missed out on by not having a daughter– she is in actual fact talking about what she missed out on with her own Mother– that has been projected onto the non existent daughter. Her Mother was immature emotionally so I doubt she could have had a nice flowing conversation with her daughter. HEAL The Mother Wound!! <3

  2. two of the participant's feet start to touch at about 1 hour 25 min in, and about 10 minutes later they are discussing sexual energy.

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